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Avatar "operating system for the internet"

Avatar "operating system for the internet"

From:
Martin Honermeyer
Date:
2014-02-02 @ 17:45
Some of you might already have heard of it. There is a new project 
called Avatar [1] built by two finnish guys. It aims to create a 
distributed and secure P2P network which allows for messaging and data 
storage, among others. In order to be able to run on as many platforms 
and to be easy to use, Avatar is implemented via JavaScript in the web 
browser. Looking the technology preview description [1], this seems the 
be one the most ambitious and thought-out projects I have seen so far. 

For the peer-to-peer connections, they are currently using an 
(optional) locally-installed software called "Avatar Bridge" which is 
aimed to fill the gap until WebRTC reaches maturity and wide browser 
support.  

There are voices declaring browser-side JavaScript cryptography as 
doomed [3]. Avatar is employing measures against this. For example, 
doing code validation checks of the centrally available code using a 
proof of validity stored in the Namecoin blockchain. And in the future, 
delivering code updates via the Avatar network itself.

Really interested to see how this works out. Any opinions?

[1] http://avatar.ai
[2] http://sneakpeek.avatar.ai/technology.html
[3] http://www.matasano.com/articles/javascript-cryptography/


Regards
Martin


Re: [redecentralize] Avatar "operating system for the internet"

From:
Paul Frazee
Date:
2014-02-02 @ 18:20
There's a fair share of us working on similar ideas. Based on the last 2
years I've spent, I'd say they'll need to scale their ambition back, or
find a good way to release usable chunks. You can't underestimate the
resources it takes to create a platform, and you can't waste time when
you're 1) downstream of a platform that could eat you (the browsers) and 2)
mixed in with a fair share of us working on similar ideas.

Good luck to them, but I think they'll get beaten to the punch.


On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Martin Honermeyer
<maze@strahlungsfrei.de>wrote:

> Some of you might already have heard of it. There is a new project
> called Avatar [1] built by two finnish guys. It aims to create a
> distributed and secure P2P network which allows for messaging and data
> storage, among others. In order to be able to run on as many platforms
> and to be easy to use, Avatar is implemented via JavaScript in the web
> browser. Looking the technology preview description [1], this seems the
> be one the most ambitious and thought-out projects I have seen so far.
>
> For the peer-to-peer connections, they are currently using an
> (optional) locally-installed software called "Avatar Bridge" which is
> aimed to fill the gap until WebRTC reaches maturity and wide browser
> support.
>
> There are voices declaring browser-side JavaScript cryptography as
> doomed [3]. Avatar is employing measures against this. For example,
> doing code validation checks of the centrally available code using a
> proof of validity stored in the Namecoin blockchain. And in the future,
> delivering code updates via the Avatar network itself.
>
> Really interested to see how this works out. Any opinions?
>
> [1] http://avatar.ai
> [2] http://sneakpeek.avatar.ai/technology.html
> [3] http://www.matasano.com/articles/javascript-cryptography/
>
>
> Regards
> Martin
>
>
>
>

Re: [redecentralize] Avatar "operating system for the internet"

From:
Jörg F. Wittenberger
Date:
2014-02-03 @ 08:53
Am 02.02.2014 19:20, schrieb Paul Frazee:
> There's a fair share of us working on similar ideas. Based on the last 
> 2 years I've spent, I'd say they'll need to scale their ambition back, 
> or find a good way to release usable chunks. You can't underestimate 
> the resources it takes to create a platform,

+1, though i believe you wanted to say that you can't _over_estimate the 
resources it takes.  Underestimating is pretty simple.

Otherwise I had similar experiences.  Avatar's goals look pretty similar 
to our ideas for Askemos (though ethereum is even closer). Except that 
we immediately scaled back to leave browser integration for later.

A decade of experience later and having released a usable, self-hosting 
system I can account the resources it took.  We had four people working 
full time for about four years, a couple of bachelor and master papers 
and a handful of grants from govt. programs.

And still: we underestimated how much resources we would need for 
publicity and evangelism. (The single worst mistake we made.)

> and you can't waste time when you're 1) downstream of a platform that 
> could eat you (the browsers) and 2) mixed in with a fair share of us 
> working on similar ideas.
>
> Good luck to them, but I think they'll get beaten to the punch.
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Martin Honermeyer 
> <maze@strahlungsfrei.de <mailto:maze@strahlungsfrei.de>> wrote:
>
>     Some of you might already have heard of it. There is a new project
>     called Avatar [1] built by two finnish guys. It aims to create a
>     distributed and secure P2P network which allows for messaging and data
>     storage, among others. In order to be able to run on as many platforms
>     and to be easy to use, Avatar is implemented via JavaScript in the web
>     browser. Looking the technology preview description [1], this
>     seems the
>     be one the most ambitious and thought-out projects I have seen so far.
>
>     For the peer-to-peer connections, they are currently using an
>     (optional) locally-installed software called "Avatar Bridge" which is
>     aimed to fill the gap until WebRTC reaches maturity and wide browser
>     support.
>
>     There are voices declaring browser-side JavaScript cryptography as
>     doomed [3]. Avatar is employing measures against this. For example,
>     doing code validation checks of the centrally available code using a
>     proof of validity stored in the Namecoin blockchain. And in the
>     future,
>     delivering code updates via the Avatar network itself.
>
>     Really interested to see how this works out. Any opinions?
>
>     [1] http://avatar.ai
>     [2] http://sneakpeek.avatar.ai/technology.html
>     [3] http://www.matasano.com/articles/javascript-cryptography/
>
>
>     Regards
>     Martin
>
>
>
>

Re: [redecentralize] Avatar "operating system for the internet"

From:
Paul Frazee
Date:
2014-02-03 @ 17:04
>
> +1, though i believe you wanted to say that you can't _over_estimate the
> resources it takes


All typos are shallow in the mailing list! :)

And still: we underestimated how much resources we would need for publicity
> and evangelism. (The single worst mistake we made.)


Could've saved myself a year if I understood that.


On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 2:53 AM, Jörg F. Wittenberger <
Joerg.Wittenberger@softeyes.net> wrote:

>
> Am 02.02.2014 19:20, schrieb Paul Frazee:
>
>  There's a fair share of us working on similar ideas. Based on the last 2
> years I've spent, I'd say they'll need to scale their ambition back, or
> find a good way to release usable chunks. You can't underestimate the
> resources it takes to create a platform,
>
>
> +1, though i believe you wanted to say that you can't _over_estimate the
> resources it takes.  Underestimating is pretty simple.
>
> Otherwise I had similar experiences.  Avatar's goals look pretty similar
> to our ideas for Askemos (though ethereum is even closer).  Except that we
> immediately scaled back to leave browser integration for later.
>
> A decade of experience later and having released a usable, self-hosting
> system I can account the resources it took.  We had four people working
> full time for about four years, a couple of bachelor and master papers and
> a handful of grants from govt. programs.
>
> And still: we underestimated how much resources we would need for
> publicity and evangelism. (The single worst mistake we made.)
>
>
>   and you can't waste time when you're 1) downstream of a platform that
> could eat you (the browsers) and 2) mixed in with a fair share of us
> working on similar ideas.
>
>  Good luck to them, but I think they'll get beaten to the punch.
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Martin Honermeyer <maze@strahlungsfrei.de
> > wrote:
>
>> Some of you might already have heard of it. There is a new project
>> called Avatar [1] built by two finnish guys. It aims to create a
>> distributed and secure P2P network which allows for messaging and data
>> storage, among others. In order to be able to run on as many platforms
>> and to be easy to use, Avatar is implemented via JavaScript in the web
>> browser. Looking the technology preview description [1], this seems the
>> be one the most ambitious and thought-out projects I have seen so far.
>>
>> For the peer-to-peer connections, they are currently using an
>> (optional) locally-installed software called "Avatar Bridge" which is
>> aimed to fill the gap until WebRTC reaches maturity and wide browser
>> support.
>>
>> There are voices declaring browser-side JavaScript cryptography as
>> doomed [3]. Avatar is employing measures against this. For example,
>> doing code validation checks of the centrally available code using a
>> proof of validity stored in the Namecoin blockchain. And in the future,
>> delivering code updates via the Avatar network itself.
>>
>> Really interested to see how this works out. Any opinions?
>>
>> [1] http://avatar.ai
>> [2] http://sneakpeek.avatar.ai/technology.html
>> [3] http://www.matasano.com/articles/javascript-cryptography/
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>