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Europython talk on P2P & Politics

Europython talk on P2P & Politics

From:
Nicholas H.Tollervey
Date:
2014-07-25 @ 08:32
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Hello List!

I gave a talk about politics and peer-to-peer at this week's
EuroPython conference in Berlin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxSKmecZ09E

As always, comments, suggestions and critique most welcome!

All the best,

Nicholas.
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Re: [redecentralize] Europython talk on P2P & Politics

From:
Ira
Date:
2014-07-25 @ 10:31
Thank you Nick! I missed the first 5 minutes so rewatching now :)

Great talk.


On 25 July 2014 10:32, Nicholas H.Tollervey <ntoll@ntoll.org> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hello List!
>
> I gave a talk about politics and peer-to-peer at this week's
> EuroPython conference in Berlin.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxSKmecZ09E
>
> As always, comments, suggestions and critique most welcome!
>
> All the best,
>
> Nicholas.
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> Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
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>



-- 
Irina Bolychevsky
@shevski

Re: [redecentralize] Europython talk on P2P & Politics

From:
Paul Frazee
Date:
2014-07-25 @ 18:00
Excellent talk Nicholas. Some of my favorite points were "Who decides what
you have to hide" and the distinction between "Authority by architecture"
versus "Authority by evidence."

Are there any projects you would like to link us to?

On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 5:31 AM, Ira <shevski@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you Nick! I missed the first 5 minutes so rewatching now :)
>
> Great talk.
>
>
> On 25 July 2014 10:32, Nicholas H.Tollervey <ntoll@ntoll.org> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Hello List!
>>
>> I gave a talk about politics and peer-to-peer at this week's
>> EuroPython conference in Berlin.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxSKmecZ09E
>>
>> As always, comments, suggestions and critique most welcome!
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Nicholas.
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
>>
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>> =9iR1
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Irina Bolychevsky
> @shevski
>

Re: [redecentralize] Europython talk on P2P & Politics

From:
Tic Nticsebastian
Date:
2014-07-26 @ 08:25
Indeed that was a very good talk. A few weeks ago we've had here in Romania
Richard Stalmann giving a speech ( but between us, he's a bit old and jumpy
and a Q&A with him int's almost impossible). Anyway, we'd like to see some
people keeping conferences or hack-a-tons here as well. We have a a lot of
python enthusiasts and really good programmers that need to learn to
appreciate the value of a "community" work. Working towards a common goal (
p2p ) without craving for the finances... And who knows if it's good and
can be made into a platform? Maybe then money will roll in.


On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 9:00 PM, Paul Frazee <pfrazee@gmail.com> wrote:

> Excellent talk Nicholas. Some of my favorite points were "Who decides what
> you have to hide" and the distinction between "Authority by architecture"
> versus "Authority by evidence."
>
> Are there any projects you would like to link us to?
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 5:31 AM, Ira <shevski@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Nick! I missed the first 5 minutes so rewatching now :)
>>
>> Great talk.
>>
>>
>> On 25 July 2014 10:32, Nicholas H.Tollervey <ntoll@ntoll.org> wrote:
>>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> Hello List!
>>>
>>> I gave a talk about politics and peer-to-peer at this week's
>>> EuroPython conference in Berlin.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxSKmecZ09E
>>>
>>> As always, comments, suggestions and critique most welcome!
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Nicholas.
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
>>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Irina Bolychevsky
>> @shevski
>>
>
>

Re: [redecentralize] Europython talk on P2P & Politics

From:
David Burns
Date:
2014-07-26 @ 22:18
I think the complaining lasts too long. I get depressed thinking about that
stuff, I want to hear about what we can do. Maybe the talk got there
eventually, but I stopped watching before then. Maybe I'll try again later
and skip past the complaining.
Dave

On Friday, July 25, 2014, Tic Nticsebastian <patrick.sebastian7@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Indeed that was a very good talk. A few weeks ago we've had here in
> Romania Richard Stalmann giving a speech ( but between us, he's a bit old
> and jumpy and a Q&A with him int's almost impossible). Anyway, we'd like to
> see some people keeping conferences or hack-a-tons here as well. We have a
> a lot of python enthusiasts and really good programmers that need to learn
> to appreciate the value of a "community" work. Working towards a common
> goal ( p2p ) without craving for the finances... And who knows if it's good
> and can be made into a platform? Maybe then money will roll in.
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 9:00 PM, Paul Frazee <pfrazee@gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','pfrazee@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Excellent talk Nicholas. Some of my favorite points were "Who decides
>> what you have to hide" and the distinction between "Authority by
>> architecture" versus "Authority by evidence."
>>
>> Are there any projects you would like to link us to?
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 5:31 AM, Ira <shevski@gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','shevski@gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you Nick! I missed the first 5 minutes so rewatching now :)
>>>
>>> Great talk.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 25 July 2014 10:32, Nicholas H.Tollervey <ntoll@ntoll.org
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ntoll@ntoll.org');>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>
>>>> Hello List!
>>>>
>>>> I gave a talk about politics and peer-to-peer at this week's
>>>> EuroPython conference in Berlin.
>>>>
>>>> The Return of "The Return of Peer to Peer Computing".
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxSKmecZ09E>
>>>>
>>>> As always, comments, suggestions and critique most welcome!
>>>>
>>>> All the best,
>>>>
>>>> Nicholas.
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
>>>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
>>>>
>>>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJT0hYpAAoJEP0qBPaYQbb6EIEH/2xi/en/RElImURaJHUaARtu
>>>> BmrGdVYnYpNIdB7TO5V/JGJVq3rTyDIZNvpPu7C2RU54ArtxBdhT1z2zcNyCHizs
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>>>> =9iR1
>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Irina Bolychevsky
>>> @shevski
>>>
>>
>>
>

-- 
"You can't negotiate with reality."
"You can, but it drives a really hard bargain."

Re: [redecentralize] Europython talk on P2P & Politics

From:
Nicholas H.Tollervey
Date:
2014-07-27 @ 05:56
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On 26/07/14 23:18, David Burns wrote:
> I think the complaining lasts too long. I get depressed thinking
> about that stuff, I want to hear about what we can do. Maybe the
> talk got there eventually, but I stopped watching before then.
> Maybe I'll try again later and skip past the complaining. Dave
> 

Oh dear. Never mind.

My aim was to show a clear and reasonable movement of thought and
analysis from rather hand-wavy philosophical problems to some of the
concrete technical work we've been doing on FriendSecure (the message
passing system) and the drogulus (the universal DHT).

You say you want to hear about what we can do:

How about thinking carefully and deeply about the problems we're
trying to solve?

How about analysing arguments against redecentralization so we're able
to check the strength of, and when necessary modify, our own position[s]?

How about deriving our technical efforts from clear and thorough
thinking rather than simply making stuff up based upon hunches?

Shallow thinking makes shallow solutions.

:-)

Nicholas.
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Re: [redecentralize] Europython talk on P2P & Politics

From:
David Burns
Date:
2014-07-28 @ 06:49
Apparently I scraped a nerve, but you did ask for critique. I went back and
looked at the later bits, I liked part three. I particularly liked
your answer to the person who wanted to claim that the standards process
requires centralization.
Perhaps I am not typical of your conference audience. I agree with you
about all that earlier stuff, how the NSA and GCHQ are disgraceful, I am
just tired of wallowing around in it. So the first five minutes is wasted
on me, that is not what I came looking for. All the stuff you mention in
your reply sounds good to me, and if you'd got to it sooner or given a
strong hint early on, I'd have tolerated the ceremonial effigy burning with
better humor, or skipped ahead.
At first I wanted to quibble with your slogan, "programming is political."
Designing a simple calculator program, one that just does it's job when I
tell it to, is not political. Writing programs that mediate interpersonal
communications is political. But your slogan is good enough. To hell with
precision, at least when it comes to slogans.
Dave

On Saturday, July 26, 2014, Nicholas H.Tollervey <ntoll@ntoll.org> wrote:
>
> On 26/07/14 23:18, David Burns wrote:
> > I think the complaining lasts too long. I get depressed thinking
> > about that stuff, I want to hear about what we can do. Maybe the
> > talk got there eventually, but I stopped watching before then.
> > Maybe I'll try again later and skip past the complaining. Dave
> >
>
> Oh dear. Never mind.
>
> My aim was to show a clear and reasonable movement of thought and
> analysis from rather hand-wavy philosophical problems to some of the
> concrete technical work we've been doing on FriendSecure (the message
> passing system) and the drogulus (the universal DHT).
>
> You say you want to hear about what we can do:
>
> How about thinking carefully and deeply about the problems we're
> trying to solve?
>
> How about analysing arguments against redecentralization so we're able
> to check the strength of, and when necessary modify, our own position[s]?
>
> How about deriving our technical efforts from clear and thorough
> thinking rather than simply making stuff up based upon hunches?
>
> Shallow thinking makes shallow solutions.
>
> :-)
>
> Nicholas.
>
>

-- 
"You can't negotiate with reality."
"You can, but it drives a really hard bargain."

Re: [redecentralize] Europython talk on P2P & Politics

From:
Nicholas H.Tollervey
Date:
2014-07-28 @ 07:53
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Dave,

Heh... no nerves scraped, but I did want to address your complaint
about complaining and, tbh, it's interesting and fun to engage with
people who are critical.

Best wishes,

Nicholas.

On 28/07/14 07:49, David Burns wrote:
> Apparently I scraped a nerve, but you did ask for critique. I went
> back and looked at the later bits, I liked part three. I
> particularly liked your answer to the person who wanted to claim
> that the standards process requires centralization. Perhaps I am
> not typical of your conference audience. I agree with you about all
> that earlier stuff, how the NSA and GCHQ are disgraceful, I am just
> tired of wallowing around in it. So the first five minutes is 
> wasted on me, that is not what I came looking for. All the stuff
> you mention in your reply sounds good to me, and if you'd got to it
> sooner or given a strong hint early on, I'd have tolerated the
> ceremonial effigy burning with better humor, or skipped ahead. At
> first I wanted to quibble with your slogan, "programming is 
> political." Designing a simple calculator program, one that just
> does it's job when I tell it to, is not political. Writing programs
> that mediate interpersonal communications is political. But your
> slogan is good enough. To hell with precision, at least when it
> comes to slogans. Dave
> 
> On Saturday, July 26, 2014, Nicholas H.Tollervey <ntoll@ntoll.org 
> <mailto:ntoll@ntoll.org>> wrote:
> 
> On 26/07/14 23:18, David Burns wrote:
>> I think the complaining lasts too long. I get depressed thinking 
>> about that stuff, I want to hear about what we can do. Maybe the 
>> talk got there eventually, but I stopped watching before then. 
>> Maybe I'll try again later and skip past the complaining. Dave
>> 
> 
> Oh dear. Never mind.
> 
> My aim was to show a clear and reasonable movement of thought and 
> analysis from rather hand-wavy philosophical problems to some of
> the concrete technical work we've been doing on FriendSecure (the
> message passing system) and the drogulus (the universal DHT).
> 
> You say you want to hear about what we can do:
> 
> How about thinking carefully and deeply about the problems we're 
> trying to solve?
> 
> How about analysing arguments against redecentralization so we're
> able to check the strength of, and when necessary modify, our own 
> position[s]?
> 
> How about deriving our technical efforts from clear and thorough 
> thinking rather than simply making stuff up based upon hunches?
> 
> Shallow thinking makes shallow solutions.
> 
> :-)
> 
> Nicholas.
> 
> 
> 
> -- "You can't negotiate with reality." "You can, but it drives a
> really hard bargain."

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