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self-introduction, queries and the mangalore mini-debconf

self-introduction, queries and the mangalore mini-debconf

From:
shirish शिरीष
Date:
2011-08-29 @ 09:04
Hi all,
      Its my first mail to the list so I might not be able to make
much of a sense of things so please excuse. It would also be a bit
longish as I found quite a few of things missing. Also gmail mangles
the formatting sometimes so please excuse for that as well.

I am a GNU/Linux user for quite a number of years which started
basically with the frustrations of the Windows retry, reboot or/and
reinstall (circa 1997) and move to various flavors of GNU/Linux, right
from PCQuest Linux (not known but PCQuest -the magazine had made a
flavor that time) to using Redhat,Mandriva,Ubuntu and now on Debian. I
use Debian and other free/foss software for pleasure and
professionally.

I read the archives of the mailing list and the flamewar messages of
Debian and Ubuntu among other things. While I usually tend to stay
away from flamewar bait this time would make an exception.

My major raison d' etre  of moving from Ubuntu to Debian was on few
simple points/counts. Mind you these reasons/points are couple of
years old so might no longer be true. Please take it with a bag of
salt :)   :-

a. Changes (arbitary) are/were constantly being introduced without
debate or/and regard to the community and is at the whim of Mr. Mark
Shuttleworth. This is good or bad depending upon how people perceive
it. I, for one do not like/subscribe to that idea.

b.b.Whenever I filed bugs, quite a few times I got the answer from the
maintainer, please check if the bug exist/s in the new version.
Getting the new version of a particular package meant going for an new
unreleased version of the whole OS which would have bugs of its own so
instead of chasing and being able to resolve a bug, I would constantly
chase new bugs so getting a productive system was hard .

Here's a partial list of bugs I had filed,raised,contributed and
subscribed in Ubuntu in something like 3/4 odd years I used Ubuntu. I
do believe the older bugs are archived.


https://bugs.launchpad.net/~shirishag75

c. Once a certain release is made, the developers would be on the run
to get the changes integrated from Debian so support/maintainability
would be an issue.

d. While I did and do like GUI's they are not the only reasons I use an OS.


 There are/were many reasons for my staying on Ubuntu for as long as I
did. One of the prime reasons though was the installation process. I
did try installing during woody, sarge and lenny stage and its only
around Squeeze (6.0) that it has become something that I can recommend
to normal everyday people.

The basic ncurses interfaces has been simplified now so even a
non-technical user can use the expert installer and be done with it.
Having the graphical installer has just made the installation process
quite trivial although there are still quite a few use-cases where
they could make it easier still.

Although have to say thanx to the popularity of Ubuntu, the point of
being usability did rub off on the Debian developers which result/ed
in a more accessible system.

I also like the tremendous flexibility of having or not having a
specific version of a software ( a software package) without getting
into a whole new stack all the time. Continuous integration at its
best ( I am on Sid/unstable btw) so possibility of upgrading or/and
downgrading packages is nice/good for me.

 I also read the flamewar between librelist and nabble. The only good
thing I see about nabble is its nice-looking while librelist is plain
and simple.

There is one feature though in the web interface of GNU Mailman which
I would like to see in librelist is the ability to turn on and off
mails arbitarily. I am on quite a few mailing lists with filters but
as lists become active it quickly becomes unmanageable to keep track
of things. With a feature to turn on and off mail its easier to
control
things. If a ticket needs to be filed, would file it but would be nice
if somebody knows of something like a roadmap for librelist (what
improvements have been planned in the near future) , maybe somebody
filed it and just need to track it.

I did notice that each ticket seems to generate some sort of a
on-the-fly hashkey but there doesn't seem to be a way to track it . I
did see Chetan's tickets but do not seem to be anyway to track any of
them.

There would be probably a few more users when librelist is packaged for Debian.

See the first bug in the deferred bug list
http://support.librelist.com/rptview?rn=3

Update: I do see that the tickets are browseable and ticket generation
is also possible once you have logged in anonymously but the entire
process is not discoverable at all. Oh! what fun ;)

Once that's in, probably you would have more users and probably that
might kickstart a more broader development contributions for the
project.

Anyways, that about librelist.

Now about SCG/NMAMIT . I am actually confused. I see the wiki page
http://www.fosscommunity.in/wiki/Mangalore/NMAMIT and see no info.
about SCG. There are quite a few queries that you guys need to write
on that page or have a link where those queries are answered :-

a. What does the name mean ?
b. How is it related to NMAMIT ?
c. What are the goals/objectives of this group ?
d. Area of operation ?

I do not know how many of these have been codified. If they have
please share a link or upload it to the wiki. A newbie should be able
to have some sense of the organization.

I also saw the Linux Habba archives and it was only in the 10th or so
mail that I came to know what Linux Habba was ( it was for students of
some schools) but nothing in the discussion told me what
ages/age-groups were these students. That should have been probably
the first thing that you guys should have found out and then do the
event perhaps. Lots of things do become easier if you are able to know
about the audience before-hand. For instance with young ones instead
of being technical just sharing free culture and showing off free
culture and free software works and letting them interact with a free
software desktop and games would have been the way to go.

Now as far as the mangalore minidebconf there is one talk/sharing I
can give which could be on the Debian-Knoppix or/and Debian-Live and
the similarities and the differences between the two apart from many
other things which crossed my mind. This personally is something I am
looking forward to as changes in Debian-Live would make it accessible
to a bigger audience as well.

I know things are in a flux but it would be nice to have somebody
reporting after the IRC meet we had the other day would have been nice
as well as who's doing what. Just my opinion.

Looking forward for info. and feedback on the above. Also, if possible
please use plain-text and either below or better in-line replies if
people want to react.

-- 
          Regards,
          Shirish Agarwal  शिरीष अग्रवाल
  My quotes in this email licensed under CC 3.0
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/
http://flossexperiences.wordpress.com
065C 6D79 A68C E7EA 52B3  8D70 950D 53FB 729A 8B17

Re: [scg.nmamit] self-introduction, queries and the mangalore mini-debconf

From:
Vasudev Kamath
Date:
2011-08-29 @ 09:29
2011/8/29 shirish शिरीष <shirishag75@gmail.com>:
> Hi all,
>      Its my first mail to the list so I might not be able to make
> much of a sense of things so please excuse. It would also be a bit
> longish as I found quite a few of things missing. Also gmail mangles
> the formatting sometimes so please excuse for that as well.
>
First of all Welcome to the list shirish :)

> I am a GNU/Linux user for quite a number of years which started
> basically with the frustrations of the Windows retry, reboot or/and
> reinstall (circa 1997) and move to various flavors of GNU/Linux, right
> from PCQuest Linux (not known but PCQuest -the magazine had made a
> flavor that time) to using Redhat,Mandriva,Ubuntu and now on Debian. I
> use Debian and other free/foss software for pleasure and
> professionally.
>
> I read the archives of the mailing list and the flamewar messages of
> Debian and Ubuntu among other things. While I usually tend to stay
> away from flamewar bait this time would make an exception.
>
Ah this flame war was mainly between me and Chethan and no one else
was involved. I was not able to put my points as clear as you have
done
today. But yet my points were almost similar. To say I was not against
Ubuntu but Chethan's false criticism on Debian was not tolerable for
me.
<snip>

>  I also read the flamewar between librelist and nabble. The only good
> thing I see about nabble is its nice-looking while librelist is plain
> and simple.
>

Again some difference of opinion here between me and Chethan. I was a
GNU fanboy back then and supported Free/Libre software than just some
closed source softwares, and mostly Chethan always tends to go for
stuffs which some well known corporates use but I prefer to choose
stuffs which is just sufficient for our needs

<snip>
>
> Now about SCG/NMAMIT . I am actually confused. I see the wiki page
> http://www.fosscommunity.in/wiki/Mangalore/NMAMIT and see no info.
> about SCG. There are quite a few queries that you guys need to write
> on that page or have a link where those queries are answered :-
>
> a. What does the name mean ?
> b. How is it related to NMAMIT ?
> c. What are the goals/objectives of this group ?
> d. Area of operation ?
>
a. Swatantra Computing Group: Group of Free/Libre and Open Source
software users of NMAMIT college.
b. a itself answers b
c. Encourage use of Free and Libre software among the students,
encourage use of FLOSS tools in curriculum. Guide students about FOSS
culture etc.etc.
d. As in point C mostly in NMAMIT college and neighboring institutes

> I do not know how many of these have been codified. If they have
> please share a link or upload it to the wiki. A newbie should be able
> to have some sense of the organization.
>

Nope none are codified. Me and Chethan thought this kind of group is
needed here because no one knows about FLOSS or FOSS culture. What we
produce is just Engineers who have read books properly written exam
properly and have got good mark. Out side this people don't have any
knowledge on new technology stuffs. Its been like this for long and we
(me and Chethan) some how managed to gather and become foss
enthusiasts and we wanted to pass down what we learnt. But sadly no
one is interested still. Its been a while we both shouted in this list
to make people fill out the skeleton pages we created but.. you know
:)

> I also saw the Linux Habba archives and it was only in the 10th or so
> mail that I came to know what Linux Habba was ( it was for students of
> some schools) but nothing in the discussion told me what
> ages/age-groups were these students. That should have been probably
> the first thing that you guys should have found out and then do the
> event perhaps. Lots of things do become easier if you are able to know
> about the audience before-hand. For instance with young ones instead
> of being technical just sharing free culture and showing off free
> culture and free software works and letting them interact with a free
> software desktop and games would have been the way to go.
>

Well yeah we could have done better there was lack of communication
because people never read their mails and I'm too much of a g33k and
tend to be more technical (I just can't help it) so some how we
managed to convince some students at least to use FLOSS (but frankly i
don't know if it was just in mouth or they practically did use it :) )

> Now as far as the mangalore minidebconf there is one talk/sharing I
> can give which could be on the Debian-Knoppix or/and Debian-Live and
> the similarities and the differences between the two apart from many
> other things which crossed my mind. This personally is something I am
> looking forward to as changes in Debian-Live would make it accessible
> to a bigger audience as well.
>

Please do give the talk on Debian-Live that will be interesting.

> I know things are in a flux but it would be nice to have somebody
> reporting after the IRC meet we had the other day would have been nice
> as well as who's doing what. Just my opinion.
>

This time I didn't tell any one just  wanted to see if some will do
update about meeting but sadly none did. I'll see if I get time after
my office will update about IRC meet in wiki.




Warm Regards
-- 

Vasudev Kamath
http://vasudevkamath.blogspot.com
http://identi.ca/vasudev
http://twitter.com/vasudevkamath

Re: [scg.nmamit] self-introduction, queries and the mangalore mini-debconf

From:
shirish शिरीष
Date:
2011-08-29 @ 16:43
In-line :-

On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 14:59, Vasudev Kamath <kamathvasudev@gmail.com> wrote:

<snipped>
> First of all Welcome to the list shirish :)

Thanx.


> Ah this flame war was mainly between me and Chethan and no one else
> was involved. I was not able to put my points as clear as you have
> done
> today. But yet my points were almost similar. To say I was not against
> Ubuntu but Chethan's false criticism on Debian was not tolerable for
> me.
> <snip>

This is for Chetan, check CERN and its use-case of using Debian. Its
interesting because CERN's policy is *mostly* done by technologists
rather than corporate policy. Although if you look at the mailing list
archives of debian-publicity you would find many such implementations.
The way I see it for a long time the Debian guys didn't take marketing
as seriously as the Ubuntu guys did. The focus is different.

<snipped>

> Again some difference of opinion here between me and Chethan. I was a
> GNU fanboy back then and supported Free/Libre software than just some
> closed source softwares, and mostly Chethan always tends to go for
> stuffs which some well known corporates use but I prefer to choose
> stuffs which is just sufficient for our needs
> <snip>

and now you are gravitating going towards with freebsd from what we talked :P

<snipped>

> a. Swatantra Computing Group: Group of Free/Libre and Open Source
> software users of NMAMIT college.
> b. a itself answers b
> c. Encourage use of Free and Libre software among the students,
> encourage use of FLOSS tools in curriculum. Guide students about FOSS
> culture etc.etc.
> d. As in point C mostly in NMAMIT college and neighboring institutes
>
>> I do not know how many of these have been codified. If they have
>> please share a link or upload it to the wiki. A newbie should be able
>> to have some sense of the organization.
>>
>
> Nope none are codified. Me and Chethan thought this kind of group is
> needed here because no one knows about FLOSS or FOSS culture. What we
> produce is just Engineers who have read books properly written exam
> properly and have got good mark. Out side this people don't have any
> knowledge on new technology stuffs. Its been like this for long and we
> (me and Chethan) some how managed to gather and become foss
> enthusiasts and we wanted to pass down what we learnt. But sadly no
> one is interested still. Its been a while we both shouted in this list
> to make people fill out the skeleton pages we created but.. you know
> :)

Ok, but its essential that atleast these things are on the wiki.

<snipped>

> Well yeah we could have done better there was lack of communication
> because people never read their mails and I'm too much of a g33k and
> tend to be more technical (I just can't help it) so some how we
> managed to convince some students at least to use FLOSS (but frankly i
> don't know if it was just in mouth or they practically did use it :) )

That I think is perhaps a problem with most of the events. Unless
there is a group and a weekly/monthly  meet-ups for followups its not
going to go anywhere. I think this is also the case also for the
recent minidebconf which happened in Pune.

>> Now as far as the mangalore minidebconf there is one talk/sharing I
>> can give which could be on the Debian-Knoppix or/and Debian-Live and
>> the similarities and the differences between the two apart from many
>> other things which crossed my mind. This personally is something I am
>> looking forward to as changes in Debian-Live would make it accessible
>> to a bigger audience as well.
>>
>
> Please do give the talk on Debian-Live that will be interesting.

Let's see, I am still to hear from Abhishek who I guess is one of the
main guys.

>> I know things are in a flux but it would be nice to have somebody
>> reporting after the IRC meet we had the other day would have been nice
>> as well as who's doing what. Just my opinion.
>>
>
> This time I didn't tell any one just  wanted to see if some will do
> update about meeting but sadly none did. I'll see if I get time after
> my office will update about IRC meet in wiki.
>
 Cool, although it would be better if the responsibility be given to
somebody who's in the meeting otherwise when they would learn.

>
>
> Warm Regards
> --
>
> Vasudev Kamath
> http://vasudevkamath.blogspot.com
> http://identi.ca/vasudev
> http://twitter.com/vasudevkamath

-- 
          Regards,
          Shirish Agarwal  शिरीष अग्रवाल
  My quotes in this email licensed under CC 3.0
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/
http://flossexperiences.wordpress.com
065C 6D79 A68C E7EA 52B3  8D70 950D 53FB 729A 8B17